Let's be honest with one another, sometimes, your winning list is boring as hell. Take mine for example, it wins... a lot. I mean, it does not win every game, and some games really make me struggle, but in most single game match ups it wins. Unfortunately for my opponents it is usually not a fun game, or so I have been told, because I play a very static Imperial Guard gun-line. I do not move much at all... ever. Lets check out what is normally my list just to get an idea.
Leman Russ squad - 2x LR Battle Tank w/side sponson heavy bolters
Leman Russ squad - 1x LR Vanquisher w/lascannon front and Knight Commander Pask & HK missile
Leman Russ squad - 1x LR Executioner w/side sponson plasma cannons
Vet squad w/3x melta & Demolitions & Chimera
Vet squad w/3x plasma & Grenadiers & Chimera
Scout Sentinel squad - 3x Scout Sentinel
Scout Sentinel squad - 2x Scout Sentinel w/autocannon
Vet squad w/3x sniper rifle & Lascannon & Chimera
Primaris Psyker
5 man Stormtrooper squad w/2x melta
Banewolf/Hellound with multimelta
It is a rough approximate, and the key parts being from the top through the Scout Sentinels. As you can see there are a ton of my favorite vehicles in the entire games, The Leman Russ. Unfortunately how I play them means I don't move them very often relying on my Scout Sentinels to protect my flanks and my small amount of infantry to keep you out in the middle of the board. I enjoy this style of army quite a bit as it is like an in person game of tower defense. However the players at my FLGS are quite tired of it
So for a bit at least,minus tourney play, and unless one of my new lists seem to do as good or better than this one for me, the list is getting retired.
The question then becomes what do I need to do differently? Well one thing everyone seems intent on telling me is I need to advance more (a terrible idea in my eyes and the Death Korps of Krieg do not advance, we simply turn EVERYTHING INTO RUBBLE WITH OUR GUNS and then keep firing.... ). This new thought along with finally getting Sammy into the Imperial Guard fold has given me ideas and forced me to rethink and re-look at a lot of the guard codex, especially in the Elite section of the book, and come up with quite a few interesting lists. Without further ado here is one of those lists that I will be giving a trial run to, and hopefully posting up some battle reports, perhaps even a video battle report or two as well.
10 man Stormtrooper squad w/3x plasma & Chimera
10 man Stormtrooper squad w/3x plasma & Chimera
10 man Stormtrooper squad w/2x melta & Chimera
Vet squad w/3x melta & Demolitions & Chimera w/Heavy Stubber
Vet squad w/3x melta & Demolitions & Chimera w/Heavy Stubber
Vet squad w/3x plasma & Demolitions & Chimera w/Heavy Stubber
Vet squad w/3x plasma & Demolitions & Chimera w/Heavy Stubber
Company Command Squad w/4x melta & Chimera w/Heavy Stubber
Hellhound w/Multimelta
I think you can tell that this list is going to get in your face and force you to have to attempt to remove me from my chimera where I will be peppering you with plenty of firepower. I definitely think it has potential and any marine codex should be terrified or the Stormtrooper squads, 3-3 guns are scary if used right.
What about you guys? What are your thoughts on this second list? The first list? What about your own lists?
Until next time, burn some heretics, kill some mutants, and do it always....
FOR THE EMPEROR
I'm working with RippedDragon to complete a IG army in a similar way to your original list but different.
ReplyDeleteHQ, plasma
Psycher Battle Squad, chimera
Psycher Battle Squad, chimera
Vendetta, las
Vendetta, las
Vet, melta, lascannon, chimera
Ditto
Vet, plasma, las, chimera
2xRuss executioners wit las and plas
The idea is to pretty much do the same...shoot up vehicles and then psych and plasma the survivors. Capture objectives. Done.
Keep an eye on his blog soon as it begins to focus on this...soon...
The old list was hell to fight because you had to go over there and root out those damned Russ tanks or be shot by them every turn.
ReplyDeleteThe second list is cool, it may do the job. I would play it 10 times and see where you are with it before making changes, but I think you will want a little more long range anti-tank, but if you can play a tight game up close, it may work for you.
agreed on the 10 times... I think 10 times against as many different opponents as i can unless i see some major play mistakes in my games in which i might want to play a couple over agian.
DeleteMing, it is always nice to hear from someone who plans on keeping an eye on what is happening here! Your list there is an interesting one, something I would like to see someone try out, I personally have always struggled with the idea of multiple vet squads with heavy weapons, becuase at that point i might as well take a platoon squad and put out some heavy weapons teams... at least in my head i see it that way. Keep us up to date on your own success with that list.
ReplyDeleteYou know, it might be easier just to rip the Sponsons off of those Russ and move them around more. A moving vehicle is a hell of a lot harder for deepstriking melee units to hit and the points you shave off would allow you to buy even more Sentinels or Infantry.
ReplyDeleteThough to be honest, I'm surprised that you sit in a gunline when you have so many Mech squads that can take the fight to the enemies deployment zone.
Quick caveat however: I have yet to play a game with my own 40K Traitor Guard, so my comments come from having read other people's bat reps and comments on their lists. So i'm hardly an authority on this sort of thing.
Lead, my personal opinion on the matter was that most people's idea of what was good in the guard codex was wrong, and that Leman Russ variants were (and still are in my opinion) one of, if not THE best unit in the codex, however most otyher guard players seemed to flock to the Psyker Battle Squads and the Valkyrie/Vendetta and Manticore.
DeleteAs for the sponsons. There is much debate about this in many peoples eyes, but I like all the extra shots from the Heavy bolters, if you rip them off you are taking away 12 Str 5 shots which can easily rip apart a squad or stun/shake the hell out of a rhino variant vehicle or blow up a Raider.
However my reliance on them may be my downfall, so it is one of the reasons the second list has been brought up, to really expand my play style a bit more.
Thanks Steve. I personally love the Russ varients myself. Having seen how fragile Vendetta's are, I've already decided to stick to the Russ for my anti-tank and Chimera's for my transports. Lots of my gaming buddies (and perspective opponnents) love autocannons, so Vends would be a really bad idea for me.
DeleteAs a fellow lover of the Leman Russ and its variants, I like your first list and can see where it would be a good one. Your mechanized infantry list has a lot of potential but my concern is that you are essentially going 180 degrees from what you're used to. You will now have to close with every enemy and give him the cold steel, more or less. I'll be following this and looking forward to your reports. Good luck.
ReplyDeleteSixgun, that is kind of the point of list I think, a whole new view on the codex, perhaps it will work out for me, perhaps not. SAMSQUANCH MONSTER is going to be testing a few interesting lists as well I think, maybe even that one i posted as well. Thanks!
Delete180 degrees is what you need to up your game, even if it isn't to your taste after testing. I have learned that diversifying one's experience whether within the same book or through a different codex - especially with play styles that are unfamiliar - is the best way to boost your competitive edge and also judge those times when you can curb the harshness against more inexperienced opponents so both of you can have fun.
DeleteI know that's a big paragraph, but it really sums up my last couple years in the game.
I
Banewolf! not hellhound. Move 12 and fire both! The chem cannon is str 1, wounds on 2's and is AP3.
ReplyDeleteThe first list shows more variation than I would expect from what I would assume is a "competative" player, though if you pretty much dig in and just shoot the hell out of everyone I can see how it wouldn't be much fun to play against (but effective, i'm sure). The second list looks more cavalier, more "CHARGE!" and I like the Guard's potential for masses of gun-toting cannon fodder.
ReplyDeleteI personally am not a competative player -- i build my lists around style and fun units. I don't play guard but if I did (and I dream of it often), my lists would look more like this:
HQ - None of the IG HQs interest me much. Maybe a CMD Squad all decked out with advisors, or some of the characters.
T - Big platoons of endless troopers, maybe more surgical vets, and definitely a penal squad or two (catachan jungle squads dressed in orange and wife-beater t-shirts). "Con Air" unit would be penals droppig out of a Valkyrie.
E - Ogryns, psyker squad (made from fantasy flagellants), storm troops
FA - sentinels outflanking or infiltrating, rough riders (horse calvary just looks fun here), maybe the valkyrie or hellhound variant.
HVY - Leman Russ variations of course, maybe an ordinacne battery.
Obviously i like a lot of variety.
(And sorry, i get long-winded... or long-typed or something)
From a tourney viewpoint, sure they are good lists. But they do appear boring, as you mentioned. I very rarely see a IG player who's majority of force are not vets. It's like every IG unit out there came from a deathworld where melta vets were required/bred.
ReplyDeleteNow if the win is important to you, by all means, keep using what works. But for friendly games, try something odd, like penal legions footsloggers backed by a bunch of hellhounds (fodder... who's going to give penal scum valuable Chimera? No one cares if that psycho gets to close to a Bane Wolf poison blast...)
Warboss, I have used Penal Legion in friendly games a few times, and to be honest... they aren't even fun. I have run them with yarrik, with creed and kell, with and without vendettas... they are just... bad... not being able to pick which of the three i get means i cant have ANY kind of continuity in my list. My for fun lists generally are on foot kinda stuff, with lots of heavy weapons teams and ogryn and death strike missiles.
DeleteHowever it has been over a year since I have -really- played competitively. Work and other factors got in the way, and in my own mind, getting that part back up and heavy will allow me to push myself in the hobby aspect of the game a bit more.