Tuesday, August 30, 2011

Where Do the 5th Edition Haters Come From - Deep Thoughts

Old School here and tonight I want to share some thoughts on where some of the nasty hatred comes from that you can find out there when you bring up certain armies, 5th Edition or 40k in general. Personally, I think 5th provides a very solid game and I truly hope GW uses 6th to build off of what 5th has created for them rather than tear the system down just to rebuild it. For some players though, 5th has cramped their style and I can kind of see where they are coming from ...
1) The codex release schedule: Look I know GW has always worked this way and the root of the problem isn't so much the usual "rawr, the books move too slow, old books need updates" - no, the problem is actually the selections they have made for books they have released. Let's see; Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Space Wolves, Tyranids, Blood Angles, Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle. Take a look folks, two non-imperial books. That isn't news to anyone, but the issue is that there are players who have and always will be xenos players and to release this many books and ONLY put out two xenos books ... well that can cause some people to become a little bitter. Add to that the fact that the 5th edition books are mostly balanced against each other, while 4th ed books are showing their age and you can see why the haters have been grabbing their pitch forks.

My two cents here: I can understand why some folks are upset, but at the end of the day, I am rather hopeful that they are building a good thing here (fingers crossed ... hell, everything crossed). The 5th edition books point toward the direction I want ALL the codices to go. I just think they should mix it up a bit instead of stuffing an edition with Imperials (like the photo above).

2) Since we mentioned 5th edition books; while most books written during 5th come with a cornucopia of options that allow players to craft multiple army styles while still being able to lay down the hurt on the table, a couple got a little left behind by bad writing. By bad writing, I really mean Cruddance. It is obvious after playing Nids for nearly two years that there are flaws in the new book. While there are some great new units and synergy mechanics, there are obvious points-cost imbalances and FOC issues. These issues force players who don't want to lose every game to their friend's new funsy list, down a dark pigeon hole with a list that isn't as cool or imaginative as they would like.

Now tyranids are an expensive army, but so are Sisters of Battle, who got hosed on the model side of the house (17.50 for three bolter chicks, really?), but also now on the rules side of the house by being forced into a strange position with a bland FOC selection and bland rules.

My two cents: I am not looking for the new super sauce, powered up, smash face army. All that I ask is that if I spend hundreds of dollars on models and hundreds of hours painting them - GW as a responsible company, should give me a set of rules that allows flexible army building with the ability to compete with other books in the same game, so at the end of the day, we can run what we want, have fun (because we are at least relatively equal) without having to run "make it work" army lists with stuff we don't really want to take.

Now while this post seems rather rantish (hey, I am allowed to do it once a year or so!), I really just wanted to address a couple of issues that I think cause some people to lose their minds (at least on the Web and sometimes in person) and others (like me) to just be annoyed. In any case, sometimes it's better to just get some thoughts out there and off your chest, so there it is, my thoughts on where the some of the naysayers stand and how they are even a little justified.

At the end of the day, though, I love to play 40k and hang out with my friends doing so. I love meeting new people through the hobby and the game, the painting, the blog are all just a part of that social aspect, so I don't take this stuff personally. Also, alot of haters just wish their armies would hurry up and get updated, lol!

Comments are always welcome, but let's not turn this into a crying festival. Intelligent feedback is always welcome.


  1. Well written and a very valid point, I can only hope that someone with some weight upstairs reads this and they start to make the suggested improvements.

  2. I love a good rant every once and while and this ones filled my gullet. I would like to throw a couple points out there though in response to some of your beefs.

    1/ In 40k there sixteen codices of which there are eight that are Non-Imperium; CSM, Tau, Nids, Daemons, Ork, Eldar, Dark Eldar and Necrons. Five out of these eight comprised of the seven codices that were released in 4th edition. GW cemented their release schedule years ago and forced these past couple of years to be nothing but Imperium Based codices.

    2/ The Sisters of Battle is in no way a codex but rather a quick fix to updating a codex that was released in 2003 two edition ago. This updating eliminates the old Ally system that was basis and unfair to half the armies in the game. It also prevents Imperium Based armies from exploiting their old codex. The White Dwarf update brings them into 5th edition by cleaning up their faith system and balancing out the various units points cost with other 5th edition units (Yes they 12pts which balances them between IG Vets and Space Marines quite nicely). The internet community does an excellent job at smear campaigns and should be hired by various political parties around the world. Have a look around the blog-o-sphere and you will find some very well written and unbiassed reviews on their update.

    GW pumps out six to seven codices a year and they have not had all their codices up to date since 3rd edition. It just takes time to update especially when we have to wait our turn for GW to update their Fantasy line at the same time. Objectively looking at the state of the 40k GW is updating the proper codices in the proper order. If you or any is in doubt have a look through this link:


    Here you can find the various codices, their release dates and what edition they were released in. I understand were you are coming from as I am a devoted enemy to the Corspe God and his so called Imperium.

  3. I understand where you are coming from old school. I don't quite get the fifth edition hate and I agree that they should use fifth as a basis for sixth. I have only played in fifth so I have no personal experience in the horror that was fourth edition (at least from what I was told). I feel there should be some minor changes to the fifth edition ruleset but nothing major. Just some streamlining and fixes of dumb rules that don't quite make sense.

  4. I really like 5th. Now there are still issuses, but that is EVRY edition of any game. People will find faws to exploit or complain about. %th is pretty solid and much better than 3rd or 4th, the other editions I have played.

    Codex release does suck and always has. I really wish every book would get a 5th relaese and time for playing prior to a new edition. It might happen. I would love every one to have a new book and 6-12 months to play with that new army/codex before a new edition rolls out.

  5. It was stated years ago at a Games day that the releases would follow a pattern of spacemarines / other army / spacemarine /other army ...etc so if they continue to follow this trend then we should see necrons / DA or BT / tau / the other SM army

    and with BT being rumored for the 6th edition box set this sounds about right since no one is counting the sisters book as a real release more of just a way for GW to push those old metal models they have stockpiled that are not selling

  6. I haven't played any 40k for almost two months, I think. I've been playing a ton of Warmachine.

    Two things that keep me from playing right now:

    TLoS and associated terrain problems
    A ton of people are playing the unfun to play against SW and IG and mech BA.

    I try to stay positive, so I'll probably get a game in this month, but I'm having fun right now with fantasy and Warmachine.

  7. Great feedback from all. This is why I decided to post it after beating myself up about it being a rant. I like the fact that we were able to get a full spectrum of opinions and intelligent and honest feedback. You won't catch me playing War Machine anytime soon (they need better looking models, sorry), but I did take a break in the middle of the summer. I am back now and back to having fun as well. None of the above has really ever kept me from enjoying the hobby, but I can identify with people who feel alienated by the Marine, Imperial something, Marine release structure of 5th. I adapted by adding Marines to my diet and learning to kill them with multiple older codices. I may even pick up one of the imperial armies released in the last year or so if Necrons don't float my boat.

  8. I'll never play warmachine
    model for model its way more expensive than 40k and i want an ARMY not 10 models

  9. Funny thing about the scorpion model. They say she is armed with sword and pistol. But none of her 5 arms have a pistol option. Not a bad model, chest is too big and I hate idiots that don't wear helmets but much better than the farseer they did.