Now while I respect the choices that most the Internet has made for its list I beg to differ. First and foremost STOP TAKING KROOT! I don't care if they can infiltrate and you can have 20+ guys in a squad. To make kroot worth a darn they are expensive and a waste and not to mention basically free kill points for your opponent. Take fire warriors instead, play to your strengths; why be in assault at all if you can help it.
I look at tau more like Necrons and they way they are played now in the twilight of 5th edition. Fire warrior squads should be treated like immortals in a Necron army. Use them often and in number. Kroot make almost no sense unless you just want them to come in from reserve late game to hold a back line objective. However I feel that a fire warrior squad would do a much better job of this.
Next, plasma/missile pod combo is bonkers expensive on your battle suits that are going to die. I get if you wanna do the jump out- fire- jump back tactic but what noob player doesn't know how to beat that really? I have played my suits armed with flamer T.L. fusion blaster deep striking with great success and it totally jacks up most opponents because suddenly they have no idea what this crazy new tau tactic is. To synergize with the suits, take a minimum pathfinder squad, no upgrades. You're not buying them for the marker lights, you're buying them for the re-roll on the deep striking.
additionally tau have missile pods that can twin link, take them, they are better than guard heavy weapon teams in that they can move and fire all at the same time. Just stack up a few behind the fire warriors and BAM!, you have your self a great way to kill heavy infantry and light armor.
So all in all my list would look like this:
1850 Pts - Tau Empire Roster
HQ: Commander Shas'el (3#, 121 pts)
1 Commander Shas'el, 91 pts = (base cost 50 + Bonding Knife 5 + Hard-wired Blacksun Filter 3 + Twin Linked Missile Pod 18 + Positional Relay 15)
2 Shield Drone, 30 pts = 2 * 15
HQ: Commander Shas'el (1#, 72 pts)
1 Commander Shas'el, 72 pts = (base cost 50 + Flamer 4 + Twin Linked Fusion Blaster 18)
Elite: Crisis Battlesuit (2#, 94 pts)
2 Crisis Battlesuit, 94 pts = 2 * 47 (base cost 25 + Flamer 4 + Twin Linked Fusion Blaster 18)
Elite: Crisis Battlesuit (1#, 47 pts)
1 Crisis Battlesuit, 47 pts = (base cost 25 + Flamer 4 + Twin Linked Fusion Blaster 18)
Elite: Crisis Battlesuit (3#, 138 pts)
3 Crisis Battlesuit, 138 pts = 3 * 46 (base cost 25 + Twin Linked Missile Pod 18 + Blacksun Filter 3)
Troops: Fire Warrior (10#, 115 pts)
9 Fire Warrior, 90 pts = 9 * 10
1 Shas'ui, 25 pts = (base cost 20 + Bonding Knife 5)
Troops: Fire Warrior (10#, 115 pts)
9 Fire Warrior, 90 pts = 9 * 10
1 Shas'ui, 25 pts = (base cost 20 + Bonding Knife 5)
Troops: Fire Warrior (10#, 115 pts)
9 Fire Warrior, 90 pts = 9 * 10
1 Shas'ui, 25 pts = (base cost 20 + Bonding Knife 5)
Troops: Fire Warrior (10#, 115 pts)
9 Fire Warrior, 90 pts = 9 * 10
1 Shas'ui, 25 pts = (base cost 20 + Bonding Knife 5)
Troops: Fire Warrior (9#, 160 pts)
5 Fire Warrior, 50 pts = 5 * 10
1 Shas'ui, 25 pts = (base cost 20 + Bonding Knife 5)
1 Devilfish, 85 pts = (base cost 80 + Disruption Pod 5)
Fast Attack: Pathfinder (7#, 133 pts)
4 Pathfinder, 48 pts = 4 * 12
1 Devilfish, 85 pts = (base cost 80 + Disruption Pod 5)
Fast Attack: Piranha Light Skimmer (3#, 80 pts)
1 Piranha Light Skimmer, 80 pts = (base cost 60 + Disruption Pod 5 + Flechette Discharger 10) + Fusion Blaster x1 5
Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 165 pts)
1 Hammerhead Gunship, 165 pts = (base cost 90 + Railgun 50 + Two Burst Cannons 10 + Disruption Pod 5 + Multi-Tracker 10)
Heavy Support: Broadside Battlesuit (4#, 180 pts)
1 Broadside Battlesuit, 80 pts = (base cost 70 + Bonding Knife 5 + Team Leader 5)
1 Broadside Battlesuit, 70 pts
1 Shield Drone, 15 pts
1 Shield Drone, 15 pts
Heavy Support: Broadside Battlesuit (4#, 180 pts)
1 Broadside Battlesuit, 80 pts = (base cost 70 + Bonding Knife 5 + Team Leader 5)
1 Broadside Battlesuit, 70 pts
1 Shield Drone, 15 pts
1 Shield Drone, 15 pts
Bottom line is this; Just stop doing the same thing with tau, is my list the best thing ever, NO! of course its not but just go back and try out some selections that will change up your game and try to adapt to what the current "meta" is. with any luck tau will get a codex in the near future and we can all laugh as we rofl stomp every player that has ever made a vagina head joke. we will have our revenge let it start today.
Kroot aren't for doing stuff, Kroot are for being there. Small squads (usually 10+3) are ideal for blocking charges to your shooting units, and their poor morale and nonexistent save insure they will lose combat and get wiped out, allowing you to shoot at the enemy on your own turn.
ReplyDeleteThe enemy WILL cross the board, even if you gun down their tanks. A competent opponent WILL get charges on you. You can't realistically stop this from happening, so it's important to be prepared for it. Piranhas, Devilfish, and Kroot let you block/delay those charges so that you can keep shooting as long as possible. That, and not because of infiltrating to objectives, outflanking to punish derp deployments, etc, are why Kroot are good. They eat charges so your real units don't have to- anything else they might along the way do is just gravy.
then your just pissing away kill points. using kroot like that is assuming that they don't shoot them even a little bit first to make them run away like little girls and then what good was the kroot good for?
DeleteSurely if they're shooting the (cheap, expendable, hopefuly in cover) kroot they're not shooting the vastly more expensive units that they're being the meatshields for?
DeleteTruth be told if you are using a kroot screen you are giving your opponents consolidation moves that bring them closer to your army. Also the kroot are basically useless against faster moving units. Jump troops and fast skimmers can bypass the screen.
DeleteThe kroot dont make an effective screen. You have to play to the Taus Strengths, which is long range combat and hit and run mid range shooting.
If they're charging your Kroot screens, they're already on top of your army. That extra d6" is irrelevant because they're already in range of charging you.
Delete>jump troops and fast skimmers can bypass the screen
Not so much as you'd think. Eldar and DE transports can, to a degree- Eldar can tank shock to deliver some Fire Dragons and open-topped lets DE do some nasty stuff, but good movement can slow that down (and you have the guns to bring those targets down pretty easily in most cases.)
Working with a Kroot screen doesn't negate the strengths of Tau, it enhances them. You aren't really losing mobility (the Kroot can Run to keep up with suits if necessary) and only against weaker opponents will you be able to shoot their whole army to death without ever being charged. For the minimal investment of 150pts, you gain two full turns of shooting after the enemy reaches your lines. It also gives you tactics against deep strike armies, fast skimmers (which are otherwise on top of you T2), outflanking/special deployments, and other armies that don't start across the board and move towards you.
Not sure I agree with your comments about Kroot. They are no good in the assault, but that's not why Tau players take them. They are the cheapest models we can place between enemy assault units (which, since we're Tau, means any enemy infantry unit!) and our shooters. Meatshield, in other words.
ReplyDeleteBut I haven't played with Kroot for a while, as I like a bit of variety in my army list, so I approve of what you are aiming for.
How about a Target Lock on your second Shas'el? Means you can attach him to Crisis Suit squad 1, and they can enter play from reserve together, but still shoot at different enemy vehicles.
I never get to use my Flamers when I have tried them, but if I am firing Fusion Blasters I always want them to hit, so I would swap the Flamers for Targeting Arrays, but it's not a big deal.
You are spending way more on Bonding Knives than I ever do. I very rarely get in positions where they would be useful. Most of my Tau are usually deployed so that if they fall back, they are off the table anyway. Tau rarely get much benefit from advancing (apart from late in the game), and you cannot use a Bonding Knife if your unit has run away!
You need to give the Battlesuits a Battlesuit Support System - it is not optional, sadly.
-totally agree about the sash'el, thats a great idea.
Delete-u may be right a bout the bonding knives i just find them handy.(personal preference really)
-actually the codex says "must select three Battlesuit weapons systems OR support systems." and the battlesuit armory section says the same thing. You can in fact take a regular weapon and a twin linked weapon and satisfy the rules. unless there was a FAQ that i didn't know about.
I like the Tau and have seen them hit the top tables and place in quite a few rtts lately, which is refreshing.
ReplyDeleteIf I played them now, I would likely play around with pirahna, but I havent gotten to tangle with yours. I imagine it pits the hurt on the local orks.
My big question in this list is just where does the hammerhead play into things?
the hammerhead is really just there for the blast template. its easily traded for any number of other things like more piranha's for example.
DeleteI still use 2x Kroot squads. I disagree with you that they are expensive. I also try to limit buying non-shooting war-gear like bonding knives(disruption pods are the obvious exection). My favorite battlesuit setup lately is burst cannon + missiles + mt. Just go for weight of numbers and hope for the best.
ReplyDeleteI like the skyray over the Hammerhead. Mobile marker lights and all that jazz. The Hammerhead has been a meh! model when I have seen it used. I'd Skyray and double Broadside squads.
ReplyDeleteI agree with poo on Kroot. Fire Warriors over them any day.
They both die easily, but Fire Warriors have that 30" S5 gun. How can anyone dislike that?
Hmmm this has gotten me thinking about digging out my Tau and after some re-painting, hit up the local Tourney scene. Thanks for sharing with us!
ReplyDeleteDoes strange that you plan to fight 8 to 12 inchs from your opponent.I guess you are counting thous fire warriors killing alot of the enemy.
ReplyDeleteif your opponent has not fought against a unit for a while they forget how to counter it.
ReplyDeleteI like your view of the Tau Sammy. Kroot are a waste of points. They survive a round at best and smart opponents will bypass them completely if they have fast skimmer transports. Tau need to fight with a combination of shooting at range with mid rage units, drones, pirahnas, battle suits, fighting mid range and hitting the enemy in their soft points.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the tau post.
ReplyDeleteAs a competitive tau player (yes, I know, thats an oxymornon) I play them a lot - every tourney and event I can (even made two GT's last year - killed a LOT of GK).
Anyway, while I disagree with your assessment of the kroot, I do agree with the idea of your list (positional relay, pathfinder fish) as this totally messes with most players.
I have not experimented with this set up enough.
TO keep things fresh, I have been trying out stealth marker teams (excellent at 1800+) and skyrays (total shot magnet...keeps the broadsides alive).
While its not easy to play tau (games with my other 5th books are cakewalks compared to them) I love them and find them exceptionally rewarding and challenging to play.
thanks again for the post.