Old School here to stir the pot on an area of interest that seems to have folks riding the fence most of the time; Using non-GW parts to upgrade models or using Non-GW models.
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With all the non-GW companies out there that offer weapons options, shoulder pads, thunder wolves and other items GW has not made the parts or models for (Paulson Games or Chapterhouse come to mind), there seem to be two schools of thought - those who would gladly partake in these parts or models and those who make it a point to not do so.
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I am going to come right out and say that I am in the camp that would love to use those parts, but I respect the opinion of those who wouldn't. What I would like to know is why wouldn't you and if you would - to what extent would you take it.
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If you would never touch the stuff is it a matter of principal or is it because you play in a strict GW store environment and are not allowed? Is it a legal issue for you? Please explain your views as there are many out there with similar view or who are on the fence who might agree with you.
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If you are like me and would use the parts, to what extent would you go? Do you stop at weapons and helmets or do you stop at mounts? Is all of that ok, but you would never use a greater Daemon from a different brand like Ultraforge? OR are there no limits and you will run whatever you please as long as it looks awesome? Once again please explain, you could be helping to influence those folks who are on the fence.
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With all that said, I will say that I am a heavy converter and love to do that kind of work, but some conversions are frustrating or expensive to gather the parts or materials for - in which case, I will gladly take a really nice looking item - like a bone sword and use it in my conversion regardless of which company it came from.
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I don't really stop there either. I hate the Canis Wolfborne model and I want my new Wolves to look amazing and I want the centerpeice units in my army to be my thunderwolves. Even if GW made a set of T-wolves right now, I would still go with the wolves from Mr. Dandy - they just fit my aesthetic and the look I want my army to have.
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It gets worse, not only would I use parts and mounts, but I have commited the ultimate heresy - model substitution. I throw up in my mouth when I see the GW Great Unclean One (and not in the good Nurgle way) and I balk at the size and price of the FW one - so I bought the amazing Greater Plague Daemon from Ultraforge when it was still available and I never looked back; it is amazing and fits the aesthetic of my army to a T.
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Now I will say that I also cannot stand it when somebody shows up with some Mageknight figures or something utterly - unless they are just playtesting to see whether they would buy the models - but if that crap ends up as a permanent fixture in their army, I just won't share a table with them.
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Now that you know my opinion, let's here yours. Where do you stand on this issue? - (authors, your in on this too, where do you stand?)
I am all for using non-GW parts, so long as they look like they belong. Custom shoulder pads? Weapons bits? Helmets? Yes, yes yes!
ReplyDeleteI draw the line at model substitution though... But then again, I can understand using other models for certain armies... *cough* Space Wolves *cough*
I just started a Vampire Counts army for Fantasy and so far I have purchased 91 models for the force. One ( A Vampire ) is from GW and the rest are from Mantic Games. I am sorry but when I think Mantic did a better job on the skeletons than GW and they are half the price I see no reason not to. I still intend to finish the army with models from both ranges but all of my skeletal models ( Skeletons, Grave Guard and Black Knights ) are going to be from Mantic as I feel they did a better job at a lower price.
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind though that I have been playing Warhammer of some sort for 10 years and every other model in my collection is 100% GW. I love many of the models GW has done, I just like what Mantic has done more.
My spin on it is this: as long as it is WYSIWYG, I don't mind what my opponents field. For my own models, I'm ambivalent. I use mostly Games Workshop parts out of habit more than anything else.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite part of the Warhammer hobby is converting minis. Well, maybe second, after hoarding them. For the most part, I use only Citadel bits on my minis for a few reasons. I have a huge amount of bits that I have been building up since before there was a Warhammer 40K. I also like the challenge of re-purposing parts from other armies into my own by chopping them up and rebuilding them. I also like more Warhammer armies than I can possibly own, and sticking mostly to Citadel bits lets me use parts from those armies. It is also satisfying to use parts of the enemy to make yours more interesting.
ReplyDeleteI do use the occasional NGW bits, and have a fetish for old Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Robotech bits from the 1980s Dark Horse line. But I do try to keep my use relatively limited, though, because my main army is Chaos Squats, and that is asking for some leniency from WYSIWIG from the get-go even if they are Citadel minis.
Overall though, I am in favor of seeing as great variety of minis as possible, and welcome others to use NGW alternates that enhance the appearance of their armies. There are a bunch of great pieces out there, especially demons, that my Squats would be happy to face on the battlefield. I also think that there are a lot of very nice bases out there these days, an area that GW has always pretty much ignored, or priced high when done.
with jabba on this one.
ReplyDeletemy default is GW or forgeworld. but when they don't have something, you're sort of forced to look elsewhere unless you want to sculpt.
although if an alternative miniature that is wysiwyg and significantly cheaper - i'd go for it as long as it fit into the rest of the army. to be honest the only thing so I've found so far is the greatcoat infantry featured here before for IG. but it looks like that kit doesn't have heavy weapons so i'd only use them if i was sure i wasn't going to use heavy weapons teams in my army. ever.
Anything goes for me. I use mostly GW stuff as I like a lot of the kits and the interchangeability especially of the various marine/CSM kits is great. Definitely not above using bits that fit or even whole figs/kits from other companies. And I certainly have no problems with others doing so. Want to make a Nid army using Starship Troopers figs? Fine by me.
ReplyDeleteI'm fine by it as long as it's consistent. Playing Guard? Don't show up with every one of your squads with mixed minis from assorted manufacturers!
ReplyDeleteFor conversions, I say get what you can. Honestly, it's a hobby, right? So kitbashing (at it's heart) is all about grabbing bits from everywhere...so why limit yourself to GW?
Make it work. Make it consistent. You'll impress me every time!
As a note, have you seen the new Wargames Factory Greatcoat Infantry? Very nice. I might use those for my Guard!
I've always had the mindset that if your going to be doing up an army just to go to a GT then not use it much after that ... go with all GW. If that is not the case, then use what fits your army as long as (and the other posts reflect this) its WYSIWYG. I am not a fan of using cheap toys and mageknight type stuff ... unless its completely converted, redone and repainted and made to fit the army seamlessly. I've actually seen many re-uses of heroclix, mageknight, and other cheap toys that turned out really nice with some heavy green stuff and plasticard work. Anyway as far as I'm concerned use non-GW stuff at will ... just so long as you maintain WYSIWYG.
ReplyDeleteI tend to use Games Workshop/Forge World parts for everything, although I mix and match between kits and armies quite a bit. I don't really have anything against using bits from other companies as long as it looks right. I've seen plenty of historical vehicles fixed up a Imperial Guard or Ork vehicles, as well as some really nice Rough Rider conversions from all sorts of places.
ReplyDeleteThe problem I have is when someone uses something that doesn't look like it fits in with the rest of the game or complicates things to the point that it's difficult to remember which unit is which. There is a guy locally who plays Orks. He is too cheap to buy Killa Kans or Dreadnoughts, so he just grabs some children's toys from his kid before he goes to the shop and has those stand in. So he'll ahve a rubber ducky, a block, and a plastic firefighter. All of his infantry are basic troops from the AoBR set. He'll just point to them in groups before the game and say, "These are the Lootas, these guys are Tankbustas, this is a Flash Gitz squad, and this Tonka truck is my Battlewagon." It's frustrating, and I run away when I see him coming. I'd rather not play than try to do the mental gymnastics of keeping track of his units. Usually he forgets what it what and suddenly the unit is whatever would be most advantageous to him at that point in the game.
If it helps tell the story and fits in with the game world, I'm okay with outsourced parts. If it is an obvious ploy to muddy the waters and make your army confusing for your opponent (I'm sure that generic-looking unit of Boyz there is my Nob Warbikers) then I don't want any part of it. I find it easier to just source GW parts from my bits box for most conversions.
It does not bother me what the source is so long as they fit the theme of the army. I have Mantic's undead for my Fantasy army because I like the style of them and they are cheap.
ReplyDeleteSince you do not like playing against Mage Knight figures I guess you would not like my Genestealers? http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/134203-.html
Converting has always been the top draw for me with 40k. I barely even play the game and it's the modelling aspect that keep me interested. Typically I use as many GW parts as I can but one of the biggest annoyances for me is that GW ended it's bits program I hate buying entire models just to get a sword or a random bit.
ReplyDeleteThis will sound werd coming from a guy who runs a parts company but I hate making my own parts, it's a lot of work to sculpt good parts and much easier when I can use an offical bit, unfortunately there's some parts that are in very high demand that for whatever reason GW does not see fit to make. If GW wanted to reign in a lot of the aftermarket part companies they could simply produce offical versions.
If GW or forgeworld supported all the options available in the codexes then the demand for independant parts would be greatly reduced.
I prefer to see offical models used and really respect people that come up with seemless conversions using all GW bits, but for a lot of models that's not an option particuarly with Tyranids. If somebody wants to use stand in models to test out an army or unit before buying it I'm also fine with that so long as they tell me what it's supposed to be.