So today, GW's Digital folks released another dataslate. This one, unlike Be'Lakor yesterday, represents a formation and unlike the FW, Apocalypse and other Expansion formations, this one is meant for use in 40k. It is a detachment all to itself and has some potency that will likely see it used. I will include the details below and then pose the question of what this means for 40k and how we play our game:
So the Tau Firebase Support Cadre is made up of a Riptide and two, Three-man (has to be three) Broadside teams. It literally is the box set bundle called "Tau Firebase Support Cadre" they are selling right now.
What does it do - Well, being a formation, it can be added to your army as a detachment following the rules of the Allies matrix. Here is what the rules say for Allied Formations:
Formations do not count as your army’s Allied Detachment, even if they are made up of units from a different codex to your Primary Detachment, and they do not stop you from taking an Allied Detachment in the same army. However, the Levels of Alliance rules from the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook do apply to them and units chosen from a different codex that
are in the same army
So this means they can be added in similar to how Inquisition can be added in, but without the usual ally detachment FOC structure.
Additionally, the formation itself gets free access to Preffered Enemy Space Marines (defined the same way as the Hatred rules for CSM) and also gets Tank Hunters. As a side note, opposing Space Marines get Hatred against the Cadre.
Now, this all sounds pretty powerful, but really, the formation costs a ton of points before upgrades and then when you look at trying to make broken Ally combos, you start to run out of Schlitz quickly in your average 1850 list.
What does this mean for 40k?
Whether or now you think this is powerful, you have to wonder how this will be recieved by the community.
I am a tournament player mostly and thus, wonder how it will be recieved by the competitive side of the community. I think there will certainly be a knee jerk reaction, if not a long term reaction to it - which may actually depend on how the next couple of Formations pan out.
My personal opinion is to allow the formations into standard and competitive play. I really think, just looking at this first one, that it won't break the game, it won't change the meta (at the moment anyway), so let's let them play and see what happens.
SO, with that said what do you think of the Fire Support Cadre? What do you think of adding formations into standard 40k? How do you think this will play out?
So you mean even more Riptides can be taken?? Great....
ReplyDeleteYour troops will be terrible then.
ReplyDeleteThink about what you see - you have to take what - almost 500 points of a tax to take the one extra riptide? Why take this then.
If we get a cheap formation then we can talk - but this is hitting what - 700+ points? What do you have left as you still have to take an HQ and troops. Sure you will add in a commander to attach to this - but then you better have target locks on everyone to hope this unit can kill multiple things. If not it is just killing the crap out of one thing and then moving on.
Plus you leave a crap ton of points in one unit - jaws will be great to remove these guys off the table - let alone lots of other things. Plus this whole unit is T4 for shooting - dakka dakka all over the place will remove it.
It isn't that good - trust me - a riptide on its own will do you just fine with 3 Broadside sitting at the side.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
DeleteI think if you are already taking the models then yeah it provides a nice boost. I also think it should have a more limited allies chart, just for fluff reasons
DeleteThis formation is what people who want to take Tau heavy hitters without having to take an HQ and troops will take. So let's say you want to use this with SM, I would load up on cheap troops like scouts in a Landpeeder Storm, maybe throw in a tac squad and a cheap HQ, then I would pop this formation in then flesh out the list with SM all stars like thunderfires and sternguard.
ReplyDeleteEven at 700+ for this formation you can definitely get more than a few scoring boots on the ground. The main problem would be having most of your eggs in this one basket, but it's a pretty sweet basket nonetheless.
Some of the tau players here already run double broadside units in their tournament lists, they basically just gain free tank hunters on such units. It's not game breaking, but is a nuisance for us serpent players lol.
ReplyDeletePoor Serpent players, hahaha. My Daemon Princes will cry sweet tears for them, Crazy. In all seriousness, yeah, Tau players get free tank hunters which is pretty clutch. Against Marines, the comnination means dead rhino chassis, if anybody still runs them (re-roll to hit and wound), but Land Raiders will likley continue to roll about as they always have.
DeleteTank Hunters on all these guys will drop some Serpents, that's for sure. I'm very curious to see what the rest of these releases bring to the table.
DeleteWhile alone, this release isn't crazy unsettling, but it puts some interesting things into the future as far as some really scrambled lists. I mean, think about Space Marines, allied with Guard, with an Inquisitorial detachment and a Cadre detachment. I'm not putting that combo out there for any purpose other than to illustrate how many different codexes you could get into one list. It's wild. Interesting times ahead!
George that's not really disturbing considering how wonky it would function, but think of how stupid it is that as a daemon player, I can grab all this anti tank shooting for no penalty, no tax, add daemon troops and screamerstar. That's fucked up. We are forging a serious narrative there huh?
DeleteSpellduck- Don't forget to add Eldar to your list, I'm sure they will be getting a datasheet as well for their bundle.
DeleteTJ, I am sure the back story on a list like that would forge a throbbing narrative. Besides, I would love to see some hyper-daemonic battle suits.
DeleteSteinerp, oh yes, I hadn't forgotten, but they aren't out yet so I left the Eldar out of that one. Now I'm wondering, after this is all done, what the maximum number of codexes you could get into an 1850 list would be.
The Eldar bundle will have to be overwhelmingly good for consideration. It will cost so many points that I doubt anyone except for Iyanden players to take it. The Tau formation make it worthwhile simply because it is great for it's points. That's just my skepticism.
DeleteIndeed, the Eldar one is pretty niche compared to the others. GW has a major thing for Iyanden this edition.
DeleteI'm curious as to what the eldar datasheet will be. Wraithknight, 2 wraithlords and 15 wraithknights. Could be fun. Sure it is a 1000 points but could put wraithlords back on the table.
ReplyDeleteMy real question is how do Tau players interact with the Fire Support. Based on your above quote, the detachment follows the rules from the allies matrix, except, Tau can't ally with Tau in the matrix. They aren't battle brothers, they aren't anything according to the rulebook. Obviously they are intended to be battle brothers but from what you said that isn't clear. You could actually use this to argue that an army with a Tau detachment can't take the formation potentially.
Tau Empire codex can ally with Farsight Enclave supplement, they are BB.
DeleteYour welcome.
Is the formation a Farsight formation? If not I'm sure how your comment is relevant. Are you saying that the detachment is battle brothers for the farsight enclave, in that case yes it is.
DeleteI wonder if a Spiritseer will be able to make the Ghost army datasheet's Wraithguard Troops or not. Overall, it depends on the rules they get. Probably Battle Focus for the lot of them. Which I wouldn't complain about too much.
DeleteCan finnaly run my World Eaters + Khorne Deamons + Dark Mech Cyborgs army...
ReplyDeleteFirst though of using Farsight with 5 Crisis suits, a Riptide and a 6 man Firewarrios of course, was allready in the 700points, so here having 6 Broadsides and 1 Riptide, and still be able to take Deamons for my WE, i'd says its nice.
Now only need a Deamon or Deamon engine type of Formation, with Maulerfiends with +1 WS and I and if with tendrils count has having nades, and it will be cool.
I like anything that gives players more options. I think how competitive these are will depend mainly on the points cost (surprise).
ReplyDeleteAs far as tournaments go, I hope that they allow any new supplements as standard and give us all a chance to find out how effective they really are before thinking about any (hopefully unnecessary) comp.