SeerK here. Well I have finalized my
list for the Adepticon GT. My Iron Warriors will be marching to
battle against, well, everybody. After really crunching numbers and
looking at all the options available I decided to go with a Daemon
Prince for my HQ.
Now I know what some of you are saying;
Why a Daemon Prince? He's so expensive and is not as good as the
other HQ choices in the codex. I will give you the points thing. He
is expensive. He can still clock in under Abbadon though. Not only
that, but after the very abbreviated FAQ on the Chaos Codex, the
Daemon Prince gains access to some new toys that can really make them
one-man wrecking machines. Let's look at the Daemon Prince shall we?
Ok, so the Base Prince is 145 points.
You can upgrade him to be a Daemon of one of the four Chaos Gods.
You can also slap some wings on him. A winged Prince base is 185
points. Pretty hefty I know, but he is much more mobile and survivable with the wings. As
a flying monstrous creature he can engage air and ground targets.
This is factors into how you equip the prince as well, but I am a
little ahead of myself. For anybody that has read my blog,Craftworld Lansing, you know I am a big fan of utility. Eldar armies
are full of specialists and having multi-role utility units, even
among specialists, is a big plus when you are looking for army
synergy. So a Prince being able to deal with
air and ground targets, very effectively I might add, adds lots of
value and makes the points spent worth it.
That all said think if you will of a
Winged Daemon Prince made a Daemon of Khorne. This gives the Daemon
Prince Furious charge and access to Khorne Chaos rewards and Khorne
Specific Artifacts. The FAQ changes the codex entry so that units
and characters with a Mark or A Daemon type have access to God
specific wargear. So that said we give the Daemon Prince an
Axe Of Blind Fury. So now we have a flying Strength 8 Prince with
Furious Charge, Rage, A Daemon Weapon and hell let's give him some
power armor. That's 255 points. 10 points cheaper than Abbadon and
in my opinion, more killy and has way more utility.
This is just one example. There are
lots of possibilities. Did you see that Daemon princes of
Nurgle have shrouding? That alone gives you the ability to move
across the table largely unmolested. Combine it with a killy
artifact and you have yourself a big hard to kill target that can
dish as much pain as it can take. With wings your Jink saves are 2
better for a 3+ save. Not to shabby.
The wings really are the icing though.
My current Army Leader is the aforementioned Khorne Prince build.
While Flying I can vector strike at a strength of 6. This is not to
bad as many flyers are armor 11 at best anyway. You will inflict a
minimum of 2 hits which is not bad. I wish I could include the bonus
from the axe but the rulebook does state “... at the models
unmodified strength and AP3....”. Sad but its only fair I suppose.
So there is my two cents about the
Daemon Prince. I think he is overlooked and dismissed because of the
way things use to be. This is a new codex and Chaos players have to
think outside the box as it were. The codex is different and
although old tricks still work, some better now, there are new tricks
and ways of doing things that will bring the full potential of your
army out. You just have to explore the codex and get the old way of
doing things out of your system. So what is your thought on the
subject?
Until Next time...........
Blood Runs, Anger Rises, Death Wakes,
War Calls!!!!!!!!!
DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR!!!!!!!!!!!
The biggest thing to wrap your head around with Daemon Princes is what you are getting for the points you are spending. The increase from the last codex to this one justifies what you are getting when you factor in how fliers work. Once the prince has a set of wings giving it a unique weapon enhances its effectiveness. Match a weapon and a mark together and you have a highly effective unit that is balanced by the points.
ReplyDeleteI like the DP a lot. I think that wings are mandatory in all cases. The mobility on a hive tyrant type MC is incredible. Keeping it alive once it hits the ground can be rough, but a good player manage when and where that happens. My personal favorite is the Nurgle Prince with wings and the mace. I typically don't invest more than that unless it is power armor. I prefer to keep the points tight. I haven't even tried psychic powers on one yet in the new book.
ReplyDeleteI was finding some blog that is related to this work & finally I found awesome contents on your blog! I'll share your work with my social media friends.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that Daemon Princes can be upgraded to one of the four powers, they MUST be upgraded.
ReplyDeleteAnd while the wings do allow for Swoop movement and Vector Strikes you are still susceptible to being knocked out of the sky and taking wounds from any HIT (not wound), so Shrouding is of no help in that regard.
I'm still largely unimpressed with Daemon Princes. It seems they will get off one massive charge...but then get locked in a challenge and really, really slaughter that single unit champion. Good trade?
I'll spend the points on another Havoc Autocannon squad thank you.
Unimpressed Trent, Being challenge blocked is going to be the case for any of our characters as well. My lords always have to chew through some sgt before they can slay the rest of the squad. CSM need snipers!
DeleteConvert Skaven into Ratling snipers as allies! Now I have another project to do...
DeleteOST - Challenge block with other SQUADS (not lone IC's) can be countered by having the squad leader or another attached IC accept/issue the challenge, leaving your big bad (Kharn in my case) to butcher the squad.
DeleteYou could get this with the DP if you time the charge with a squad, but that's never a certain thing in 6th with random charge distance.
Y'all can use DP's if you want. I've just had considerable more success with Kharn in a unit.
Oh I'm not saying DPs are the way to go. I run a lord in most of my lists, but I haven't written off the DP the way the rest of the net has. I prefer to run a prince with the mace when I run one simply because the mace bypasses some of the challenge stuff by killing the squad leader and making the models next to him still take a test. If it wasn't for that, I would have a hard time justifying the cost.
DeleteI tend to never write anything off completely and I wouldn't be able to offer much of an opinion on something if I had never tried it. I will say that the prince is expensive, but I do enjoy a good monster now and again. For competitive games, I am all about lords and sorcs on bikes and jugger lords. I also think Huron offers a lot for his price and Kharn, as you mentioned is a straight killer!
I'm planning the Nurgle Prince with Wings, Power Armor, Black Mace, and Gift of Mutation. Gift of Mutation for a chance of getting Eternal Warrior, +1 Toughness, or Feel No Pain. He's going to be part of my Tally list, and should draw attention away from other units, or bring the tally up fast.
ReplyDeleteI have to say that you have to use the DP wisely. He does not have the champion of chaos rule so he does not have to challenge. Granted he has to accept if he wants to hit anything. Choose your combats wisely. I only really use the DP for heavy lifting as it were. he rips apart command barges and land raiders so the juicy center is exposed to fire. I would also like to point out its kinda hard to knock the prince out of the sky. It comes down to luck and the game has gotten more random. so you need to have a plan when your luck goes south. Plans within plans ;-)
ReplyDeleteI agree CSM do need snipers of some sort. I find it kind of odd they dont have any units that can pinpoint targets. sure a character can place his shot if he rolls a 6, but you cant count on it. At least with unit of snipers you have better odds of hitting the target.
I have to disagree with your choice of Kharn Trent. yeah he is a beast in close combat but in a shooting game that does not mean much, especially when any unit he is with gets obliterated by long range fire. one good missle shot or a lucky surviving power fist is all it takes to take him out.
Beh. Very killy, but far too fragile for points invested. I'll take an allied DP from the Daemons codex every time. The points that you pay to 'upgrade' from the Daemons DP to the Chaos DP are not well-spent in my opinion. You spend 65 points for +2 WS, +1 S, +3 I, and +1 A. The WS is irrelevant; you're hitting everything on 3's with WS 7 anyways, barring some stupidly huge character, who will kill you anyways thanks to your lack of EW or T:6 (oh hi Draigo). The +1 S isn't bad. The +3 I is in the same boat as +2 WS; do you really need that much higher I? The +1 A is nice.
ReplyDeleteSo, okay, we get +1 to some useful stats, and super buffs to some situational stats. But you lose EW, which is huge, you lose access to Marks, which are far and away better than being "a daemon" of a god, and you lose access to some very nice upgrades that Daemons DPs get. Cardinal amongst these is the option to get assault grenades from Nurgle or Slaanesh, and access to excellent shooting power from any god you please.
Summarily, whilst you can get a very killy DP from the Chaos book (obviously), it's a one-trick pony; it kills things in melee, so long as nothing looks at it too hard (T:5 and a 3+ save isnt' setting the word on fire). Wings are nice, but Daemons DPs can get them too, and can shoot things while they're up there. The Daemons book just gives them so many more options and benefits (EW and marks) that it's hard to argue that the Chaos DP had a lot of thought put into it beyond "point it at stuff and hope it doesnt' get shot".
(I know I'm commiting the cardinal "play with what you have, not what you wish you had" rule, but considering that you can ally for a Daemons DP, and it's very fluff and the DS-ing troops offset your lack of variable deployment, and you're even Battle Brothers, AND you can use your same model, I dont' think that I'm overstepping here.)
Lol, can't really disagree a whole lot Tim, don't forget that you also don't have to test for your powers.
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