You all know I have been touting the foot guard list with a TON of heavy weapons teams filled with copious amounts of lascannons. Those lists are great, and powerful and definitely get the job done! (Getting me tied for 3rd in a tourney not so long ago in which I made a few REALLY bad play mistakes against one of my most dreaded foes Daemons!)
However talking with everyone, people seemed to be quite down on vehicles, so it made me think about my old, Leman Russ heavy lists I used to run, and while I think the old list is not exactly what I need with the new rules, I think it had some very well rounded ideas that could still work in this edition. Here is the list I took last night and though it definitely needs some tweaking, it won me the game against Tau and who better to test a vehicle list against?
HQ - Primaris Psyker
HQ - Primaris Psyker
Troop 1 - Vet Squad, 3xMelta, Demolitions, Chimera
Troop 2 - Vet Squad, 3xPlasma, Grenadiers, Chimera
Troop 3 - Vet Squad, 3xFlamers, Chimera
Troop 4 - Vet Squad, 3xFlamers, Harker
Fast 1 - 3xScout Sent.
Fast 2 - 3xScount Sent, 2xAutocannon
Fast 3 - 2xVendetta
Heavy 1 - Leman Russ Demolisher, Lascannon front
Heavy 2 - Leman Russ Demolisher, Lascannon front
Heavy 3 - Leman Russ Executioner, Lascannon Front
I know it seems odd to have the vendettas in a squad, but it actually worked out kind of well, especially with putting both flamer vet squads in for transport and using them to lay down the pain turn three.
Did I lose a lot of vehicles? Sure I lost 2 of my three Chimeras, one full squad of the scout sentinels, and one Leman Russ Demolisher, and one Vendetta. However that did not matter, there was just too many hull points, too many bodies and it was too fast moving for my opponent to handle. I was about to outflank and out maneuver him with the outflanking Scout Sents, and the Vendettas with squads in them.
Vehicles are indefinably worth it. You are going to lose them, true, but kill points do not factor into most matches these days with the new missions. If most tournaments follow that kind of ideal, I think we will see more vehicles creeping back into play, especially vehicles with 12 or greater armor (sorry Razorback Spam lists, Heavy Bolter spam from Wolves and Guard players, plus the amount of Necron STR 7 weaponry still mean you are out of luck).
What about you guys? Are you finding vehicles making their way back into your list after ditching them with the start of this edition due to the fear of hull points? Or do you still think they stink?
Once again, if you readers have anything you would like me to cover in a post (I recommend Imperial Guard questions but hell I will give any subject a shot as long as it pertains to wargaming) shoot me an email at imasentinel@gmail.com
Until next time, burn some heretics, kill some mutants, and do it always.....
FOR THE EMPEROR!
Only stopped using them for NOVA cause the scenarios were pretty harsh on them. Otherwise they are still powerful, and still can give you great returns for their points. Great for LOS manipulation as well as mobile cover for your units(see tau devilfish)
ReplyDeleteI like using empty Chimeras for other Chimeras and for Leman Russ variants cover.
DeleteIt is sad that some scenarios made up by people do that, vehicles are an integral part of the game, and should not be pushed out by someones made up rule system.
I would suggest dropping the Las Cannons from the Demolishers, even though they are considered Heavy Vehicles I do not think they get to bypass the rules for firing ordnance weapons. That means you would have to snap fire the las cannons anytime you shoot the big gun.
ReplyDeleteI believe that is taken care of with the Lumbering Behemoth special rule that the Leman Russ tanks have, I will have to double check the FAQ to see if it changed but I am pretty sure it still hits on its normal 4+
DeleteI believe that is what changed in the FAQ, they changed the rules for Lumbering Behemoth, they are treated as a Heavy Vehicles. That rule means that the tank can only move 6 inches ever, and it cannot move flat out. But when firing weapons they count as being stationary. The crux of the whole matter is that Ordinance rules do not make an exception for Heavy vehicles. I want to be wrong as many of my tanks have las cannon hull mounts I wish I could shoot.
DeleteI will definitely take a further look at this, agreed then that on Demolishers it would stink, however there are other variants where it would still be worth it.
DeleteTotally, look at the Executioner variant. That would be 5 plasma cannon shots a round. Thankfully the main turret cannot does not have the Gets Hot rule.
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DeleteOh man, I used that a TON in 5th edition, and as you saw it was in my list in this article.
DeleteAs a matter of fact I used it, with much success in the Adepticon team tournament this year
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/2012/03/death-star-update-no-more-orks.html
I also wrote up a good article about it a long while back, around here we generally refer to it as The Plasmacutioner
(http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/2010/12/rise-of-plasmacutioner.html)
I'm still finding Chimera's are too fragile to be worth running a full Mechanized list. Now, at most, I buy two five man melta Stormtrooper squads and bring them onto the board late into the game to trash enemy vehicles and strongpoints. I still field two Leman Russ varients in every army, but I find that high AV vehicles are tougher than ever and well worth the points.
ReplyDeleteWith Stormtroopers why bother with the vehicle when you can just deep strike them, with the re-rollable special rule or put them in vendettas?
DeleteI run an armour list with typically 10+ vehicles in 1500pts 5 chimera plus assorted hellhounds.devil dogs, Russes and a medusa. I don't think vehicles have been nerfed at all , they are more manoeuvrable and seem to last just as long as long as you don't encounter too much melta weaponry.
ReplyDeleteRE re Leman Russ Lascannon question it is my understanding that you can only snap fire the lascannon as the your vehicle counts as stationary thing doesnt make a difference. All seems a bit stupid really as a basalisk or medusa can move and fire its ordinance anyway!
Are you finding people playing a lot of 1500 point games around where you are Colonel? Here we are still mainly playing 1850, but we do delve into 1500 as well as 2000
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