tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4101762574768178801.post4325795884304152433..comments2024-03-26T02:32:50.095-04:00Comments on Dark Future Games: Comparing Tough Daemon Princes and Chaos MSU list thoughtsTJ Atwellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01304177224607153451noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4101762574768178801.post-3949494874687534592011-03-18T08:27:42.263-04:002011-03-18T08:27:42.263-04:00Summoned greater deamon = waste of points.
I am s...Summoned greater deamon = waste of points.<br /><br />I am sorry but i have proven it time and time again. If i know as a player its in your list i will pop your transport that has your champion in it. And dont tell me you are fielding 5-6 champions... its not point cost effective out of regular squads. I have seen it work as part of a bike squad, but in general, i am going to target those champs so hard that you wont be able to summon him in time and then you not only wasted points on the champion, you wasted it on the Greater daemon<br /><br />Just my opinion and one i expressed to OST last night as well.Lord Solar Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00252060382871829075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4101762574768178801.post-64694051198831933782011-03-18T08:14:56.111-04:002011-03-18T08:14:56.111-04:00Gots a link to that article? I find summoned great...Gots a link to that article? I find summoned greater daemons to be pretty cool.mugginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10897915677573578644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4101762574768178801.post-87117285943976046162011-03-17T21:34:03.434-04:002011-03-17T21:34:03.434-04:00Alex, I love the enthusiasm. About a year ago, I w...Alex, I love the enthusiasm. About a year ago, I wrote an article on the awesome that is the summoned daemon, especially when ganged up with Princes.TJ Atwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01304177224607153451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4101762574768178801.post-63476042420496951212011-03-17T20:57:22.176-04:002011-03-17T20:57:22.176-04:00Just read the fallowing name and figure out how to...Just read the fallowing name and figure out how to fit it in the list to fit your personal style.<br /><br />"SUMMONED GREATER DAEMON = AWESOME!!!"<br /><br />This unit it pure win that I don't even need to explain how it works because it's that good. If "SUMMONED GREATER DAEMON!!!" is not your personal favorite anymore, make it your personal favorite. <br /><br />If your plan with the terminators is walking support, sure, reaper cannon. But if you are planning to DS them for some armor busting, enjoy the 3 combi-meltas built.alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00404149320152766676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4101762574768178801.post-54513344432456268592011-03-17T18:34:16.724-04:002011-03-17T18:34:16.724-04:00My question then for you Michael is "How is a...My question then for you Michael is "How is a BS 3 Tank with 3 guns max and likely no cover save going to make up for 4 BS 4 missile launchers likely sitting in cover?"<br /><br />Missile are not the rage because of wolves - it is a simple matter of recieving a greater volume of high S shots at BS 4 than the oblits generate while also not being shaken or stunned by stray lascannons. The key is survivability in a very anti-mech environment - The Havocs are harder to remove than a pred and more points efficient than the pred as well, especially if it is possessed.TJ Atwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01304177224607153451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4101762574768178801.post-8489034199402565772011-03-17T17:17:18.117-04:002011-03-17T17:17:18.117-04:00I know Space Wolves have made missile launchers al...I know Space Wolves have made missile launchers all the rage right now but frankly Havoks are not cost effective. For less points you will get more from Predators and you can daemonically possess them (if you have the points) to keep them shooting.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279670699731739002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4101762574768178801.post-89953539190752921892011-03-17T17:07:48.695-04:002011-03-17T17:07:48.695-04:00Yes, you don't have fists to scare away Armore...Yes, you don't have fists to scare away Armored Sentinels - but you also don't have units large enough to fully wrap an Armored Sentinel/Dreadnaught. This means one of your oblits (chainfists? or just powerfists) or a prince can charge in, wreck the walker, and free up the unit.<br /><br />No list can do everything.Vogrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01203890099031251851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4101762574768178801.post-70575399208484331932011-03-17T15:43:12.422-04:002011-03-17T15:43:12.422-04:00Lord Solar Steve and I had a discussion on the pho...Lord Solar Steve and I had a discussion on the phone about the list and I think some really good points came up regarding the ability of sentinels and other walkers to just lock units in combat (the termies have power weapons, plaguers have no champs ect).<br /><br />Its a really valid concern as there just isn't any way around it in this build and frankly, I think CSM really don't MSU very well. Some of the trouble that occurs comes from the low amount of armour found in lists that include Princes and Oblits - making the standard three rhinos pretty easy targets. I do tend to focus a little more into CC than the list here, but I wanted to garner some opinions from the readers to see what they thought and if you al want to offer up something of your own, I am all ears ... or eyes ... or whatever.TJ Atwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01304177224607153451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4101762574768178801.post-43266730638683181972011-03-17T15:38:55.544-04:002011-03-17T15:38:55.544-04:00Thanks Goatboy, you just saved me a FAQ reference....Thanks Goatboy, you just saved me a FAQ reference. <br /><br />You pretty much had to carry the FAQ around with you in the hay day of Lash lists because everyone else had their own version of how it worked.TJ Atwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01304177224607153451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4101762574768178801.post-16572138792413919192011-03-17T15:08:07.635-04:002011-03-17T15:08:07.635-04:00From the FAQ - You can move people whatever way yo...From the FAQ - You can move people whatever way you want. So yes you can lash them into a clump.<br /><br />Q. Can you use Lash of Submission to move models around within a unit and re-arrange them? Can models be moved out of unit coherency? Can a unit be moved out of combat? If a unit is moved into dangerous terrain, do they have to test? If jump infantry are moved, are they assumed to be using their packs or walking? Can a unit be shoved right off the table, or into impassable terrain?<br />A. The move created by this power is executed exactly like a normal move, except that it’s not slowed by difficult terrain. It follows that, for example:<br /><br />It also lists what you can do with them - but basically you move them just like a normal move. So you can break coherency, but can do whatever else you want like holding hands all together and get clumped by plasma cannons.Thomas aka Goatboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07473515228765680402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4101762574768178801.post-29248436176714375232011-03-17T14:53:40.614-04:002011-03-17T14:53:40.614-04:00You know that when you use Lash of Submission ever...You know that when you use Lash of Submission every single models moves in the same direction, the same distance, right? Thus you cannot ever clump models to abuse template weapons.Skarvald the Troll-facedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00850398881112778705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4101762574768178801.post-43855293879179184982011-03-17T13:46:19.790-04:002011-03-17T13:46:19.790-04:00An amazing idea OST, i really like the list and ev...An amazing idea OST, i really like the list and even I would be weary of it. I have been saying for awhile there are some really scary things in that codex where if they get put together right they can hurt.<br /><br />Muggins, personally i think defilers are scary, but thats just me, they can cause so much widespread damage because they are so bigLord Solar Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00252060382871829075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4101762574768178801.post-31087455582922096982011-03-17T13:32:55.208-04:002011-03-17T13:32:55.208-04:00Awesome post. I've been putting my Death Guard...Awesome post. I've been putting my Death Guard force together for about 4-5 months. Right now my army usually consists of 3 plague marine units (two plasma, two plasma, two melta), obliterators, terminators, terminator lord, warptime nurgle daemon prince, and a defiler now.<br /><br />People really don't ever remember that the daemon prince is a MC. I've had a lot of luck with him just flying in and tearing stuff up.<br /><br />I was disheartened in a couple games recently when my fearless terminator lord ran off the board with my terminators because they lost dudes to shooting / melee. <br /><br />I'd love to hear your advice on defilers. I never really liked them because they look like a bad Meijer off-brand toy, but I built mine and I think the paint scheme will make it look better. I think in the near future I'll just use three smaller units of plague marines and bring in another defiler or vindicator.mugginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10897915677573578644noreply@blogger.com