My Thoughts on the Chaos Rumors, the Band Wagon Tidal Wave and Thunder Juggs!

Old School here talking about Thunder Juggers ... no, not some AC/DC inspired enhancement song, but the very most recent Chaos Legions Rumor Roundup and most importantly, the fact that it includes my lovely Jugger Riding Zerk Boys! Here are the rumors and some of my thoughts as a Chaos Player and enthusiast.

For a link to the original rumors, head to the bottom of the post:


General Information:


ghost21 reports that the plan is for 3 Chaos books. Legions, Renegades and Daemons


Daemons are already covered, so the next book will cover the Chaos Legions, with a future Renegades codex incorporating all manner of traitor humans, mutants and Marines-gone-bad.


ghost21 thinks this Legions book will be 1st or 2nd book after 6th edition, which is being released July 2012, putting the release around October-November 2012


Harry supports this, saying:
I do think CSM are the first sixth edition book but not sure if they come just before or just after 6th edition.


theDarkGeneral contradicts this, saying he has heard of 3 separate Legions books with an even split of Legions in each. He claims 2 are planned for release in 2012 and the third for early 2013. He further claims a “Lost and the Damned” style book and a “largely Daemon-based” campaign book are in the works for after that.


theDarkGeneral was supposedly given the Legion split breakdown as:
*World Eaters, Word Bearers and Nightlords
*Deathguard, Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children
*Thousand Sons, Alpha Legion and Black Legion


Alright, I, like many Chaos fans, I would be happier than Khorne at a Blood Drive to see three separate books just for my beloved Legions and I know that, combined with the Renegades and Daemons books, this would put them on equal footing with the Space Marine books ... but I honestly think this is wishlisting at its worst. I cannot imagine there being three different books for them in three different releases, sorry. BigRed did chime in on the thread and say that Ghost21 seems to be the most legit and we should the rumors in accordance with who said what. I will say that I buy into the idea of a Renegade book though, but even if there were three Legions books (which would be awesome), that would also just mean more power armor (not so awesome).


Mat Ward is rumoured to be writing the codex. (seriously guys, get over it )


Minor Gods will make an appearance and all Legions will be included


I had my say on the minor gods before. I think this is the largest potential for messing up the fluff.


The minor Gods are named, and will act in a similar way to marks, but have no Daemons.


Background:
Ghost21 tells us the background has been expanded and improved so that Legions and their worship of the Gods is far less one-dimensional.


Thank the dark gods, I am tired of the Dawn of War style Super Villain feel Chaos has taken on. We need more anti-hero and dark evil!


Rules:
Each Legion will have something unique to them, but will have unit restrictions to offset their inherent bonuses.


Ghost21 further clarifies by saying World Eaters may be restricted to 1 Havoc squad, but could potentially take more by “trading in” something else.


Havok Squads? What about Preds, Defilers ect.


theDarkGeneral tells us:
it won't change according to your Legion (HQs) as in swapping more Heavies for less Fast, but your access to units in those categories opens up, becomes limited, or closes off accordingly. Easy example I was given, is taking Khorne Daemon Prince means no Scouts...


Hmmm ...


And goes on to say the following about the different Legions:


*Nightlords: I don't ask much about them, though a lil' i have for my buddy Paul has around 25,000+ points of them...Hit & Run and Stealth for universal special rules, but possible counter attack (for elite unit) as well as jump pack troops.


If  it is true, CVinton's Nightlord's Counts as BA will finally lose the counts-as and get awesome, though I am dropping salt tabs hard on this one!

*Word Bearers: Apparently getting a lil' extra attention, and besides Dark Apostles, new models for "daemonancers", which just might be unit champs/sgt upgrades. I'm not sure. BUT, their summoning of Daemons from the Warp apparently allows re-rolls on the scatter dice, as well as new mishap chart!

I don't believe the big three-book deal, but god, this sounds awesome!
*Deathguard: Feel no pain and blight grenades for their Cult Terminators, new nasty flamers upgrades.


Yes! We can fantasize. Given GK and BA, this doesn't seem far off.

*Thousand Sons: AP3 bolters will be MUCH more useful under 6th Edition, and a couple new Psychic abilities, one of which (supposedly) can remove an entire enemy squad from the table on a failed stat test!


Given the things we have seen in the rumors for 6th, (5+ cover the norm), no kidding! Psychic powers that eliminate units might seem awesome, but also are little crazy, unless they rely on some kind of LD test, where lower LD units tend to be cheaper - otherwise this seems a little less than fun, IMO.

*Iron Warriors: Access to Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield termies, thunderfire cannon off-shoot, Havocs w/Tank Hunters and relentless for some squad...


I like the idea of vet skills in Chaos, but otherwise, this seems like making one of my favorite legions into Spiky Marines. This is one of the reasons I think this is wishlisting on behalf of a Counts as mentality.
*Emperor's Children: Lash is finally changed to be more in line with Daemon version. More heavy weapons upgrade count for larger units. Better Bikes? Not sure what that means...

Lash can vanish as far as I am concerned, but given the awesome models we have seen in conversions in the Halloween series we ran, I would love to see coked-up Slaaneshi Bikers!

*Alpha Legion: Lots of infiltrating abilities, outflanking, and even temporary control of enemy squads/vehicles...basically sneaky *******s!


Any way we can get a serious Alpha Legion army back up and running is welcome in my mind
*Black Legion: HQs allow broader access to all unit types, but lack of better universal special rules.
Ghost21 tells us Chaos units have built in negatives depending on the God. It is unclear if these are just Cult Troops, or all Marked units


Nurgle units can’t perform Sweeping Advances and are what he refers to as “stoic” (possibly meaning slow and purposeful, possibly just the name of this group of rules)


Khorne has to “engage in some kind of combat every turn” (not sure what this means ie does shooting count?) or roll on a D6 table and suffer some random penalty


Tzeentch require a “command figure” (likely Sorcerer) or will act based on a random D6 roll


Slaanesh are described only as having “very harsh results”


I can see the negatives fitting to character, but they really need to steer clear of the Thorpe method of random. Otherwise it makes sense that somebody like a Berzerker (having adrenal spikes in their head) getting a little crazy when not in combat!


theDarkGeneral says Nurgle Flamers can be made poisoned 3+ or even 2+ (possibly through a special character).


HQ


Special Characters:
ghost21 tells us characters will supposedly be very powerful, including the “Red Angel” from this artwork


Red Angel sounds awesome!


Although ghost21 goes on to say he hasn’t seen a named Warsmith character, only a Dark Mechanicus one.


Why not a Warsmith. Legions need less Coteaz and more Hansou. Though I could see Dark Mech in the Renegades book.


theDarkGeneral claims we will see the return of Droomrider, Doombreed, and Cypher as well as another 5 new characters. This does not preclude any or all existing special characters being included.


Cypher exites the Deathwing Player in me and I am sure SeerK is snorting lines just thinking of the Doomrider coming back!


theDarkGeneral also tells us there will be a Slaaneshi Dreadnaught special character.


theDarkGeneral reports that Ahriman will be better due to new Chaos Psychic powers as well as "some kind of guaranteed psychic ability that can't be stopped via Psychic Hoods, etc"


If you broke into the Black Library, you would have some great powers too!


Elites


theDarkGeneral tells us Chaos Dreadnaughts will no longer act randomly, and are able to take marks, but will not be able to be Venerable.


Makes sense.


theDarkGeneral claims Possessed will be improved and supposedly have upgrades either already included or that you can pay for.


Sounds like 3.5 in a good way.


ghost21 tells us there will be a "gladiator themed" World Eater unit


If there are models to match, this will be a welcome solution to the boring, old Zerker kit.


ghost21 also says Emperor's Children will have access to a unit described as "soul shieldsman" which is possibly an upgrade for Veterans.


Hmmm ... not sure what to think of that.

Troops


theDarkGeneral implies there will be some kind of “Scout unit” which will not be available to World Eaters.


God-specific Daemons will likely be included, but ghost21 is only sure of the lesser varieties (Plaguebearers, Bloodletters, Daemonettes & Horrors) and not the greater ones
theDarkGeneral claims Daemons will remain as they are in the Daemons Codex, but with slight points adjustments to reflect the ability to summon them and certain 6th edition changes.


The Word Bearers and the god-specific Marines should have them, makes sense to me.


Fast Attack


theDarkGeneral claims “Assault Berzerkers” with jump packs will be available as Fast Attack choices.


What ... World Eaters come to war in flavors other than 'regular' ... heresy, lol!


ghost21 tells us Doomrider will be a unit upgrade (presumably for Bike squads)


ghost21 also adds that Nurgle Bikes are in, but their "Stoic" rule may make them less effective in his opinion.


Well, I always thought they were gimmicky, which has been the only reason I never built them.


theDarkGeneral mentions a new unit called Brazen Knights consiting of "Skull Champions" (possibly super Khornate CSM Champions) riding Juggernauts


Praise the Dark Gods YES!!! All I want is Mother *#@*ing Berzerkers on Mother*&#$ing Juggernaughts!! If nothing else, this had better be real!


Heavy Support


theDarkGeneral tells us Slaughterfiends from Apoc will be available, as well as versions for other Legions and Marks.


SOunds cool, might jive with the current 6th ed rumor mill, but they haven't really been huge on adding FW specific stuff so far.


theDarkGeneral reports Obliterators maximum unit size is increased to 4


theDarkGeneral says most types of Daemon Engines can be taken as 3 per FOC slot


This sounds cool, but I just don't think I believe we will see 3 defilers in a slot.


theDarkGeneral claims Legions will get a new Landraider pattern with a higher transport capacity (possibly 15) and is described as a "warped version of one of the Imperial versions”


Makes sense, but falls into my category of "I wish they would come up with their own stuff"


Marked Legions are rumoured to get Havocs


theDarkGeneral has also hinted at the possibility of a new Monstrous Creature that is not a Greater Daemon. No further info is available as yet.


Miniatures:


Plastic Dreadnaught rumoured by both ghost21 and theDarkGeneral. TheDarkGeneral claims it will include multiple Dreadnought close combat weapons types, such as the Chainfist, Thunder Hammer, Power Scourge, etc.


The number one model that needs to be replaced: Chaos Dread, kind of a given.


Plastic Plague Bearers rumoured to appear in the 6th edition started


Plastic Raptors have been confirmed by the ever-reliable 75hastings69 who said:
I can add to this that the new plastic Raptors are very nice


Much like the Dread, I take it as granted.


Abaddon – ghost21 claims this miniature is almost identical to the existing one, but “bulkier and taller”


Abby needs it.


Little Horus - ghost21 reports seeing a miniature for this guy, and implies it is very good


Little Horus has been a great character with the standar Heresy series level of regret to make him both tragic and evil ... perfect!


ghost21 also claims to have spotted a miniature for a Dark Mechanicus character, but is unsure if he will make it to release. He described it as:
a very creepy sculpt based on a john Blanche piece






- Alright, switching back out of rumor mode and back into just talk. I honestly think there are huge grains of salt involved with any of this stuff, but the recurring theme is that the Legions will be getting an effect on the table that we get from the fluff. Chaos should be scary. My hope is that they give chaos plenty of their own feel and less of the "bad guy" imperial stuff. In any case, I am a die-hard Chaos fanatic, so I will paint-up, convert and play them regardless of rules, ect.


I do think that people need to understand that Chaos Legions will be the biggest bandwagon we have ever seen in the 40k universe thus far. Think about it, 3.5 gave us a tone of Chaos players who likely still have their armies (Chaos players are loyal, lol), then 4th gave aus quite a few more, many of which hung on and counts-as supplied them with an outlet for their armies. Some folks have made armies like Night Lords and T-Sons to serve specifically for a Loyalist book ... and then there will be the folks who fall in love with the fluff and the models - creating a perfect storm of bandwagonry that we have yet to see even on the SW or GK levels. Personally, I like Chaos enough that I don't care, everyone else will get over it and I personally can't wait to see "Space Wolves count as Chaos!"


Well, those are just my own personal thoughts. I know I sounded pretty negative at time, but such is the way I deal with rumors this far out ... except for the Khorne Berzerkers on Juggernaughts ... that has to be real!


What are your thoughts on this round up?